Wednesday, July 16th, 2008...7:57 am
Why Folks Like Me Are Concerned
Michael Bryan over at Blog for Arizona took a shot at my brother for asking if the candidates for supervisor were going to vote for a Democrat for county chair. His thesis is that such talk is unfair to the candidates he is supporting (Donna Branch-Gilby and Bob Robuck) because it once again plays on the allegation that the two are recruits of Ray Carroll. Bryan says that such talk is unfounded.
Is it really?
I had a conversation back when this campaign started with Carroll himself, and he refered to Branch-Gilby as his “third vote.” Carroll’s a bit of a talker (okay, more than a “bit”), so I don’t take this as evidence of his direct involvement in Branch-Gilby’s campaign. However, it means he ain’t exactly a disinterested observer here, and that much of the “unfounded” talk doesn’t only come from the Bronson/Valadez side.
I don’t think that Branch-Gilby was “recruited” by Carroll, and I have doubts that Robuck was either. Branch-Gilby’s direct answer to the question of who she would support for chair goes a long way to addressing the concerns that folks like me have about her candidacy. I wasn’t at the debate, but my understanding was that Robuck did not answer the question, only saying “I’m a Democrat.”
So, why are some, like me, so concerned about Carroll’s role in all of this? For one, I have spoken to many activists who are supporting Branch-Gilby and Robuck who will tell me with a straight face that Carroll is the most “progressive” member of the Board of Supervisors. Either these guys aren’t paying attention, or they have a definition of “progressive” that is rather narrow.
It also doesn’t help much that Robuck repeats Carroll’s talking points. Carroll’s line for years has been that too much county money is spent on the South Side. So, what was one of Robuck’s lines the other day? Too much county money is spent in South Tucson.
Yeah, there are two county funded programs based in South Tucson, Las Artes (where I work for a county contractor) and the Jackson Employment Center. Las Artes serves students from all over the county (I’ve even had students from Three Points and Marana), and the Jackson Center also has clients from all over Tucson. There is also the John Valenzuela Center, which is actually pretty small as city and county funded neighborhood centers go. Other than that, there is neighborhood reinvestment money which the county gives according to a stress index to neighborhoods across Tucson. So, which of these would Robuck propose to get rid of?
Of course, he doesn’t propose to close any of them either because he doesn’t want to say or doesn’t know the details of the programs. Talk like this tells me that he isn’t familiar with the needs of the district he hopes to represent. He is appealing, maybe unintentionally, to the folks that think that too much of their tax money is spent on “those people” on the south and west sides. That’s the line that Ray Carroll and his supporters have been giving for years. When I hear a Democrat ape that line (and when ostensibly progressive activists applaud it), I get concerned about what his agenda is.
One bit of advice: if the people that are supporting these candidates want people to stop thinking that Carroll is up to something, it might help if they stop paling around with him and talking him up.
14 Comments
July 16th, 2008 at 10:08 am
It’s kinda funny, actually. Bronson kept accusing Branch-Gilby of sowing seeds of discord when we all need to get along and work together. Then when Branch-Gilby agrees with Republican Carroll on a specific issue — election integrity — that’s proof she’s in Carroll’s back pocket. Can anyone see a contradiction there?
Donna feels deeply that members of her own party were on the wrong side of the election integrity issue, and rather than be a knee-jerk supporter of all Democrats, she took what she felt was the right position and worked with those who agreed, regardless of party. That seems to me to be the exact opposite of what Bronson is alleging.
Branch-Gilby is as good a Democrat as they come — past Pima Dem Party Chair, recently Vice Chair of the state Democratic Party — and she supports Democratic principles. She believes honest, transparent elections are as Democratic as a principle gets, so she’s willing to take a principled position, even when it means fighting with fellow Democrats. That’s what Democrats do, right?
Ted, don’t conflate a single issue — election integrity — with a general statement of support for Carroll. Sure, Carroll is going to game this thing, because it’s to his political advantage. He loves to see Dems fight among themselves. Sometimes, though, fighting a fellow Dem is the right thing to do. For example, if Lamont, a Democrat, were successful in knocking out Lieberman in Connecticut, we wouldn’t have Joe playing lapdog to McCain right now.
Bronson wasn’t named Supervisor-for-life. Other Democrats who feel they can do a better job have the right to challenge her.
By the way, a video of the forum should be online soon. It’s worth a watch. When you get your information about what happened from one side of the issue, which I think is likely what’s happened in this case, you might not have a complete picture of the event.
July 16th, 2008 at 12:45 pm
You’re missing another point, Ted, and that is Bryant took a well-deserved shot at your brother for being RUDE and OFFENSIVE. I challenge you to offer any excuse for that kind of behavior. Loudly telling Jennifer E. to kick Robuck’s ass during this debate was shocking and uncalled for.
July 16th, 2008 at 12:54 pm
For the record, being a progressive is the ability to think and act outside the party lock-down box. Very much unlike the party content on this site where dems and repubs fit so neatly into your good vs bad schemata. Demanding a pledge or oath to promise to elevate any politician on the grounds of party loyalty dismisses the whole ‘content of one’s character’ as the real basis of a candidate’s merit. Tom’s question was not only un-progressive, but kicking it so old school.
July 16th, 2008 at 1:12 pm
Indy-
Once again, you miss the point. I don’t know what you are talking about as far as telling Jennifer to kick Robuck’s ass. It doesn’t sound like something he would shout at the debate. Anyhow, the question gets to something important: what sort of person would they support for chair, someone like Ann Day or Ray Carroll, who have consistently been against investing in this community’s poorer neighborhoods or Richard Elias, who has. Pretending that party affiliation is unimportant for the sake of building some sort of indy street cred is no less knee jerk silly than what you constantly accuse me of.
July 16th, 2008 at 1:23 pm
If you read the Blog for Arizona site, and as far as I know, it is still the headliner article, Bryant details very clearly the scene where Tom loudly tells Jennifer to kick Robuck’s ass. Read it thoroughly. You will find it.
I make no pretense to have any street cred. I speak for myself only.
July 16th, 2008 at 5:21 pm
What is all the fuss over? It’s not like Sharon Bronson isn’t going to win re-election afterall. She spends her time out with her constituents while DB-G gossips with the Democratic activists. In case you haven’t noticed there is only a handful of activists and whole lotta voters.
Sure, DB-G has every right to challenge her as David said. I believe the Phil Lopes is being challenged too, but that doesn’t mean she is going to unseat a leader who has been working hard for the people of Ajo and doing an outstanding job. My mother lives in Ajo and they just love Sharon there.
July 16th, 2008 at 10:37 pm
Sadly, it does seem your brother did that.
Whether that’s a bad thing or not, I don’t know. I might have done the same thing in his place.
July 17th, 2008 at 6:30 am
Primaries, as the old saw goes, are “family fights.” They can be raucous and even unseemly. Who can forget Hillary and Obama going at it in their debate before the South Carolina primary, with Obama calling her a shill for Wal-Mart and Hillary blasting him as the errand boy for a slumlord?
The fireworks on display at the Nucleus debate are likely just a preview of more to come as the primary approaches. After September, I’m sure that Democrats will have to unite behind their supervisorial candidates. After all, we hold a narrow 3-2 majority on the Board…yet could not find general election candidates to oppose the two Republicans! Does anyone reading this want Barney Brenner to be naming the next Board chair?
I don’t live in either of the two districts where Democratic incumbents face challengers, but if I did, I’d vote for Bronson and Valadez. Other than the buffoonish manner in which the county handled the election integrity matter (and there is a lot of blame to go around on that issue), the challengers have done a poor job of building a case as to why the incumbents should be tossed. It also seems like they have not taken the time to truly learn the jobs they will be taking on if they win, often misunderstanding their roles or certain issues and processes.
However, I do not question the party loyalty or personal integrity of any of these four people. It’s sad that the South Tucson mayor, also a good Democrat, is having her character called into question. Given her experience and stature, it is probably an asset to the operations of Valadez’s office to have her on staff. The challenger has no evidence of ethical chicanery as a result of her being in that job and he should stop talking about it unless he does.
As for Ray Carroll, he and Ann Day are currently being lambasted on Sonoran Alliance as RINOs. I think he likes it when everyone is mad at him, or when he is the center of attention. It reminds him of his past as a boxer!
July 17th, 2008 at 8:50 am
Well Ted,
Your brother must have wrongly informed you because I said ” I am a Democrat and I would support a Democrat for chairman.” I also said that Jennifer Eckstrom, mayor of the city of south Tucson also works as Ramon Valadez’s as his executive assistant, and I think that is a conflict of interest. I have also recently called for a federal investigation in the John Valenzuela Center a youth program in the city of South Tucson (county and federal funded program) because the head of Pima County Parks and Rec. called for a federal investigation, and was told by the Administration to stand down, not to futher it’s investigation of missing funds into this programs accounting. This is what upsets all taxpayers of Pima County. Why are not these same kind of programs in other parts of Pima County? Do you believe that only the city of South Tucosn need these kind of programs? I think you need to take a drive around Pima County and you will see there are several areas that need these kind of youth programs. I would also like to bring to your attention a dead end road called 9th ave, at 38 th street, where Jennifer has asked for the Pima County Board of Supervisors to establish this as a County Highway and spend $110,000.00 to pave and install sidewalks on this dead road which has one house and three empty lots. This is another waste of taxpayers money. How can you explain this?
July 17th, 2008 at 8:52 am
I doubt a strong Democrat like Donna Branch-Gilby would be a puppet for the Republican Supervisors, considering her past history as Chair of Pima County Democratic Party. From what I hear, she and Supervisor Carroll hardly know each other.
Can’t wait to see that video of the July 10, 2008 Nucleus Club forum, which should reveal the truth of what happened that night. Then Ted can see what brother Tom actually said.
July 17th, 2008 at 5:30 pm
Geez Ted, I don’t take a look at your blog for a couple of days and look at all of the fireworks I miss!
Robert,
I was also at the Nucleus Club meeting and remember fairly well what happened when all four of you answered the question of supporting a Dem for Chair. When it was your turn, you remarked how you were a life long democrat and supported the Party and Democratic candidates. However, you never specifically said the words, “I will support a Democratic Chair.” Now, do I think you did this on purpose? No, I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt that you thought your other statements would suffice. Some may see this as splitting hairs but I can see the concern they have, especially when the other three answered the question with a simple and to the point, “yes.”
July 17th, 2008 at 9:15 pm
So it must be a short life for Robuck being a life-long Democrat since according to the records, he has been registered to vote only since January 22, 2008, despite living in Tucson and Pima County since 2004.
Also, how could one be concerned about election integrity, i.e. the Pima County RTA Vote in 2006 when one wasn’t even registered to vote?
July 18th, 2008 at 8:27 am
“…folks that think that too much of their tax money is spent on “those people” on the south and west sides. That’s the line that Ray Carroll and his supporters have been giving for years.”
I would be very interested in your justification for this false and rather slanderous statement.
Scott D. Egan
Executive Assistant to Ray Carroll
District 4
July 18th, 2008 at 3:53 pm
There is video of this event posted on Robert Robuck’s site:
http://www.electrobuck.com/events.htm
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