Monday, June 2nd, 2008...9:12 am
Thoughts On This Weekend’s Festivities
As some of you saw, I tried some “live blogging” by proxy from this weekend’s Rules and Bylaws Committee meeting. It was an experiment, while not a failure, that didn’t go as well as I would have liked. I stopped recieving Mr. Super’s missives when he realized that he really wasn’t getting anything that wasn’t readily available on the teevee.
For months, the knock against Barrack Obama’s supporters from many Hillary Clinton supporters was that Obama’s folks were wild eyed, naïve zealots who are unconnected with reality, so different from the intelligent, world weary Clinton supporters who know how things really work.
What’s funniest to me is how this weekend turned that upside down in several ways. First off, you had the mouth breathing Clinton supporters. Yeah, they were holding up signs that supported “counting every vote,” but their arguments quickly became Obama trashing and even claiming that they would rather vote for John McCain. Throwing that around takes away any credibility that these folks have as party activists, and they should not be suprised that the committee wouldn’t listen to them.
I’m hoping that the more veins-popping-out-of-necks hooliganism that was featured in news reports about the protestors was a result of reporters looking for the most whigged out people since it makes for better TV and YouTube videos (This one featuring an opressed white Manhattanite has been making the rounds).
So, now Obama, the one who is just a silly talker who will be lost when presented with the levers of power, is the one who is the sly manipulator who is gaming the system (I won’t get into the littany of ironies of Clinton’s people complaining about Obama’s manipulations of the nomination process). For all of the complaints about the four “extra” delegates that Obama was awarded (never mind that no delegates were ever really awarded in the first place), what is most fascinating is Obama could have actually gotten more given the way the vote came down. Obama’s folks are the ones who comprimised with the State parties and the pro-Clinton committee members on that point. So, can Obama deal with the realities of political deal making? Yes he can.
One thought I had watching the more non compos mentis protestors was, geez, do I have to sit with these folks on the convention floor? I thought about it, and I can’t think of any local Clinton supporter, at least one that is actually active in politics, that talks like these lunatics. I’ve had my run ins knocking on doors, but no one who would, say, have the status of delegate. I’m assuming that at some level, these folks were encouraged by Clinton’s campaign or some 527 supporting her (check the pre-printed signs). Why on earth would she choose to have people like this representing her? She can do better.
25 Comments
June 2nd, 2008 at 9:50 am
This Democratic primary fiasco is the result of trying to be all things to all people, with political correctness factored in, which history tells us results in less than satisfactory results.The really sad part is how the exalted rulers of the Democratic Party created the elite “SUPER DELEGATE” to assure control over the unwashed masses in case, God forbid, things were not quite going their way.
June 2nd, 2008 at 10:40 am
As a former Chicagoan, and a graduate of the Mayor Daley school of ward and precinct politics, I’ve been amused by the Clinton Campaign’s failure to appreciate exactly what they were up against: A man who learned his politics from some of the wiliest political street fighters in the Democratic Party.
June 2nd, 2008 at 11:39 am
Ted,
Just remember in Arizona the Hillary delegates outnumber the Obama delegates so I would be careful about how you blog about us! I would hope that you would be honored to be sitting next to us and yeah we are all well behaved, at least most of us. I can’t think of one of us that thinks the way the lady from NY. I think she forgot to take her meds. As I have said from day one I am for Hillary and against McCain. I will go where Hillary asks me to go when she want me to go there.
June 2nd, 2008 at 1:26 pm
One of the many problems with the “politics of personal destruction” that Hillary used against Obama is that there will always be some number of supporters who cannot change gears when the time comes.
Hillary will move on and she will cut the best deal with Obama that she can, but her most rabid followers will have nothing left but their own vitriol. Some of them will most likely work against an Obama victory in whatever way they can.
Obama will try to bring Hillary on board in the interest of unifying the party, and for absolutely no other reason. I suspect she will accept an offer for a cabinet position from Obama, because she is unlikely to assume a power position in the Senate in the near future, and she is already 61 years old.
This has been a miserable primary season, and I hope that the DNC looks at two things before 2012:
1. Getting rid of the superdelegates
2. Standing by the rules they make for an election.
June 2nd, 2008 at 1:37 pm
I confess that I have rarely had my blood boil as much as it did when I heard Ickes making his case that 2 + 2 = 1,000,000. It disgusted me to no end to here him make arguments about voter disenfranchisement when they were lucky to get ANY delegates from those two states. That’s right…ANY. They deserved NONE. The very argument was more than damaging…awakening fears of voter fraud when the only fraud being perpetrated on American voters was what Ickes was saying with a straight face. The words of the DNC member from NC right after were simply amazing. I am sending him a card.
June 2nd, 2008 at 1:39 pm
OH…and Arizona should definitely hold its primary January 1 next time over…before both Iowa and NH, as there are simply no consequences whatsoever for doing whatever the hell y0u want.
I can only say that members of the GOP must simply be loving this…it is everything they say about the Democratic party and more.
June 2nd, 2008 at 2:22 pm
Yeah, Kral, Hillary’s epic struggle to become the leader of the free world invokes every struggle for democratic elections in the history of mankind. The whole “disenfranchisement argument” was sickening. The DNC has the right to a) make rules and b) enforce them. In the future, I suspect that just about anything they say about rules will be laughed at.
So who thinks that Hillary’s big speech tomorrow night in New York is going to be a concession speech?
I say not. I think it is going to be the final appeal to the superdelegates to see it her way. I think she will make her electability argument based on her winning the popular vote when you use her math. She will also argue that it is easier for her to beat McCain than it is for Obama.
I just don’t believe that tomorrow is the concession. It would be so un-Hillary.
June 3rd, 2008 at 12:50 am
Dana–your words are nice, but I expect better behavior from other Democrats who are looking for us to all hold hands and sing cumbya on Obama’s behalf–I’m not ready to do it, and at this point I wonder if I will ever be.
One thing I can say with certainty is that I am resigning as a PC & state committeeman, and not doing the usual door to door campaigning I have done in the past. I’m tired of rude Obama supporters who have said so many negative things about our former first lady–the ONLY former first lady the Democrats have had in the last 25 years! Just look at the posts here about her, yet they expect us to fall in line. No way.
In 2004 I supported Kerry like a good party person and watched as the Dems threw what was a sure win, out the window. I get the feeling that it is ground hog day once again.
June 3rd, 2008 at 5:25 am
Be careful how you blog about us, resignations, and the unbelievable notion that it is Hillary who was injured by Obama supporters when her campaign did most of the injuring…including a fairly transparent attempt (and success) at taking a candidate who appealed across races and turning him into one who attracted primarily one in many states.
It is very very hard to have a candidate you believe in lose, it is harder to do the right thing and support the other candidate at the end of the process.
At the beginning of this race I would have unconditionally supported Hillary. I have to say that the tactics used in this campaign soured me on her greatly, but I would have voted for her and donated to her if she had won.
What I point out above in my comments is just a smattering of the lack of fairplay the campaign demonstrated. The Obama campaign, time and time again, responded to her attacks with dignity…even after some in her campaign released a picture to the media of him dressed in traditional religious clothes of a country…in an attempt to make him look more like a muslim. He rarely went into the mud against her, except when her campaign slung it. Some call doing everything it takes to win a fighter…I would call it something else.
He ran an excellent campaign. As I look back there was little to nothing to stop Hillary but herself. She had every advantage, every connection, and money, money, money. She also has committed and good people supporting her.
She was beaten. Not unfairly. She was beaten by a movement and a much better campaign. Reflect back and many of you will see.
June 3rd, 2008 at 11:25 am
It’s hard to be a fair judge when you are looking for perspective by only acknowledging the worst of of a group. I believe that is how the most hurtful stereotypes and prejudice are born on a larger scale.. but bringing it back down to the subject at hand… If I were to do the same all I have to look at are the 2+ Clinton supporters that were asked to step down from the campaign for being top operatives in the “Obama is a Muslim” smear e-mail campaign… or how about spreading around the misleading photo of the Obama “pledge incident” with a blatant lie attached saying that it was taken during the Pledge when in fact they all knew it wasn’t. Or the numerous “accidental” Obama/Osama “slips”.
We can all just take a look at all the supporters, organizers, surrogates, and other top representatives that had to step down or away from both campaigns this primary season for getting “a little carried away” or given bad instructions from people who were really trying to do some nasty campaigning. If we only saw those people and ignored all the wonderful campaigning we have all done… well, then we would be republicans
j/k It would be a very sad and distorted view of how historical and amazing this past year has been.
-People who live in glass houses…. well, you know.
June 3rd, 2008 at 11:52 am
The problems with Hillary’s campaign has not been just about overzealous supporters. It started at the top and that can even be why these supporters thought they had a pass to spread lies about Obama. Has everyone forgotten “scorched earth” and “kitchen sink” strategies and the “nuclear option” threat that was always out there?
Oh, but Hillary was just roughing him up a bit to get him ready for the GOP.
Hillary was actively engaged in the “politics of personal destruction” and that was how she intended to get the nomination. In fact, one of the reasons that Hillary has such marginal credibility as an Obama VP running mate is that the GOP would attack them both with film footage of Hillary attacking Obama. It would be used in every attack ad across the nation.
Some fences don’t mend so easily. But, of course, Hillary never thought it would be her at the bottom of the ticket.
June 3rd, 2008 at 2:36 pm
There’s an idea…let’s see, I supported Bruce Babbitt in 1988…Bob Kerrey in 1992…Bill Bradley in 2000…Wes Clark in 2004…geez, I should have resigned long ago.
Heck, the Democratic Party refused to nominate me two short years ago…
By saying you’ll tank the whole party over this, you are saying that there is nothing worth fighting for, and even that McCain would be preferable. Heck, in one comment on here, you talked about a McCain presidency as no big deal. As much as you think that Obama’s supporters are obnoxious, this sort of talk over the past few weeks from Clinton supporters is what I’ve found obnoxious.
June 3rd, 2008 at 3:25 pm
Please stop lumping all Clinton supporters into that category!! Anyone who says they will vote for McCain does not speak for me.
June 3rd, 2008 at 4:40 pm
I expect the next step in the Hillary Obstacle Course to the Obama Presidency will be Hillary supporters demanding that Obama give her the VP.
I do not think that Obama will succumb to the pressure, and if he does it will be a huge mistake.
June 3rd, 2008 at 10:25 pm
Wow…you are quite the prophet Liza…that is exactly what is happening…one CNN tonight, Lanny Davis was raising it in a slightly veiled way…and then Gergen shot him down like skeet….massively.
I think Obama/Clinton would be an amazing ticket…but what gives me more pause is what has happened to Bill. I just can’t imagine him near the Oval Office in this administration. More importantly, I also see the very suggestion as a way of getting a bunch of former Clinton “talent” back in the White House. There are some good people still out there yes, but I want to see some new blood in the Exec. branch, not a host of Clinton has beens.
June 3rd, 2008 at 10:52 pm
Tedski your arrogance shows you put a lot of thought in to your post. How typical and how boring. But it explains why your life is focused on sarcastic blogging–what else is a bitter person to do?
I may be giving up my extreme duties with the Democratic party, but I am not leaving the party–like you seem to think. I just don’t like the people currently involved. What I find obnoxious is how Obama supporters can’t comprehend. There’s an arguement in everything that is said and written because the only way to build up your candidate is by knocking another one down, just like you did with my post.
Liza - Hillary needs to remove herself from this campaign and distance herself from Obama. She would be taking the back seat with accepting the VP nomination and quite frankly, John Edwards makes a better wallflower. This is now all about Obama and his supporters and convincing the rest of the country to go along with you. Good luck.
June 4th, 2008 at 12:38 am
Bridget–
When you mention Obama supporters were saying ‘rude’ things about the former First Lady, were they saying things that weren’t true?
Hillary’s supporters are angry [at least partly] about the press treatment she has received. However, I saw the videos/heard the audio/read the transcripts of Hillary when she mocked and distorted Barack’s speeches, and when Bill tried to belittle Barack’s candidacy by saying he would make a good VP, when Hillary wavered on the question of whether Barack was a Muslim, when she ran the 3:00AM add, when one of her lead surrogates referred to Barack as an Adlai Stevenson (spelling?)/Dukakis/Kerry–trying to promote the perception that Barack is an “elitist”–not in touch with regular people–notwithstanding his previous community organizing–all of this is pushing the envelope on primary campaigning fair play. Therefore, when some in the “media” have not treated Hillary well during the past month, some of us have not been that sympathetic to Hillary, given her below-the-belt treatment of Barack. Did Barack say anything about Hillary coming even close to the following (which she said)–”I have a lifetime of experience that I will bring to the White House. I know Senator McCain has a lifetime of experience to bring to the White House. And Senator Obama has a speech he gave in 2002.”
The only nasty thing I remember Barack saying about Hillary was during one of the debates when he made some crack about her being ‘likable–enough’–something like that. I think this is why so many Barack supporters are angry with Hillary.
There’s some healing to be done on both sides.
June 4th, 2008 at 7:11 am
Sigh. Can’t we all look at the bigger picture out there and put our hurt feelings aside? Obama. Won. Whether or not you are happy with this decision, it is time to put pride aside, and move on to fight against what would surely be the un-doing of our country.
I may be the biggest most ignorant dork on the planet, but I do think this primary campaign has been good for our party. It has energized us, engaged us, and made us better and will make us stronger. I believe that! But it needs to end now. It’s over.
I agree with Obama’s remarks last night when he stated that Hillary has made him a better candidate, and visa versa. I think having her as a VP would be historic and amazing, and not just as a consolation prize. Once the dust settles, and pride simmers down, this ticket would overtake McCain. And that’s what needs to happen.
June 4th, 2008 at 8:23 am
Katie,
The vast majority of us don’t think that Hillary’s supporters are all like Bridget. Some of the political people I respect most in the world, Dana Kennedy from the AZ AFL-CIO comes to mind, are passionate Hillary supporters but also are dedicated to electing a Democrat this fall now that the nomination is over.
I think that Obama supporters would love to hear more from people like you and Dana who believe in uniting quickly and moving forward as one party so that we can change this nation and this world. The voices of people like Bridget are far louder and more aggressive right now.
We need people saying that regardless of who we supported in a spirited, agressive primary campaign between two talented and passionate candidates, we will not abandon our values. We will not walk away from being pro-choice and pro-labor. We will not walk away from supporting our veterans when they come home from Iraq. We will not walk away from fixing our health care system and our economy. We will not throw all of those values away by voting for McCain, who stands for just the opposite, or staying home in November.
I know that you and Dana and millions of other voters that supported Hillary in the last 6 months believe in that. We need your voices to be the dominate ones, not those of people like Bridget.
June 4th, 2008 at 11:14 am
lol “People like Bridget” Like I’m a mad woman–pleease.
Get a clue people: http://smartwomenforhillary.com/
You all can thank me later for making you aware of the vast numbe of people who are exremely disappointed and are considering a vote for McCain. I have brought their voices to this blog–and all you want to do is isolate me. Geeez. This is why John Kerry lost–Democrats refused to listen to the voices of dissent.
Many of Hillary supporters are older generation women who go to the polls without fail, were fighting for the equal rights and pushing through the numerous glass ceilings since the 60’s & 70’s. You can bet this loss is an emotional one. Here is a clip of an email from one older woman I know:
“I wrote a note to Hillary on her website. She didn’t concede, great.
The better candidate, most experienced, most articulate, most caring, most respected around the world…..yet party leadership forced an unknown, unqualified, corrupt candidate who has and does, associate with those who want to destroy our country on voters. And this was done by playing and rigging the totally UNDEMOCRATIC democratic primary process and denying citizens of two states their legally certified votes and actually giving some of Hillary’s votes to Obama.
ENOUGH!! This no longer is the party of FDR, Truman and Bill Clinton. I believe party elitists and their corporate interests used the malleable Obama to destroy the Clinton legacy.
If a republican had left office with the country in as good shape as Clinton did (Despite the republican/corporate agenda to destroy him.) a monument would have been built for him on the White House lawn!!
Receiving e-mails this morning from republican friends who cannot believe Obama has declared himself the winner……he scares the hell out of them. What scares the hell out of me is a dem. controlled congress with Obama (It is all about ME.) as prez. Perhaps gridlock with McCain as prez isn’t all that bad.
Hillary asked for respect for her supporters…….however…..from Politico…..
“It has been a hard-fought and sometimes bitter campaign, but Obama is not, one of his senior advisers assured me Tuesday night, going to spend a lot of time in the next few months wooing Clinton supporters whose feelings may be hurting.”
Wish all Hillary supporters would read that statement for we too, have been thrown under the bus.”
So perhaps I am the only one who has found this particular website and have commented, but there are plenty of people who feel disenfranchised as noted above.
So ask yourslef this–who is working harder to ensure a Dem is elected in November? Those of you who prefer to bury your head in the sand, or those of us dealing with reality?
June 4th, 2008 at 11:32 am
“This is why John Kerry lost–Democrats refused to listen to the voices of dissent.”
I’m all for listening to voices of dissent, and as Hillary supporters join the general election fight, their millions of voices will assuredly be heard. But this is now a general election- a choice between two people- and the question now is, will those millions of voices be for Obama or for McCain? John Kerry lost because he didn’t have enough voices and votes supporting him. That was a disaster, and what we learned is that we should have worked harder on his behalf and tried to convince more people to vote for him. No matter how you look at it, fighting against Obama now is fighting FOR McCain.
June 4th, 2008 at 12:12 pm
Bridget -
With all due respect, classifying Hillary Clinton as a rebel fighting a lonely war against the party establishment stretches the bounds of common sense. She started this as the candidate of the establishment, and she ended it with folks like Harold Ickes and Terry McCauliffe, icons of the party establishment, still fighting on her behalf.
June 4th, 2008 at 2:09 pm
Thanks Joel,
You bet I will do what needs to do to elect Democrats up and down the ticket and I will do what ever I can to unify democrats. There are certain people who blog that I simply ignore what they have to say.
I think most of us know what the goal is, it is why we do what we do. Some of the Hillary supporters need a cool off period so if you know one of them just give them a little space.
June 4th, 2008 at 2:58 pm
I, too am a supporter of Hillary, although my organization has not yet endorsed, which left me in a silent mode. I was disappointed when I received an e-mail yesterday re; the Democratic Party Chair’s endorsement of Obama. I believe that an elected/hired head of an organization does not have a personal opinion, but should represent the opinions or no opinion until the organization decides. I am a life long, fourth generation Democrat and I will work my hardest to defeat McCain. Having said all of that, this was personal for me as I have been a feminist and advocate for many years and saw the glimmer of a light at the end of a tunnel. I was determined and intense, but never rabid or ugly. I will regroup and do what the majority wants, as I always have, but allow me a moment. I remain committed to electing Democrats.
June 4th, 2008 at 5:12 pm
What Ted said above! I had the same reaction about the statement of the party leadership forcing Obama on us.
I dont mean this to sound mean, but she only became an underdog after she started losing and her campaign failed to do what an establishment campaign does well.
History should not be re-written on Obama’s victory. He came out of nowhere…with 20% name recognition to defeat one of the most well known and established candidates the party has seen in many many years.
His victory no different than (soccer analogy), Fulham United defeating Man United for the English Premiership.
A major upset.