Friday, May 4th, 2007...6:32 am
Was Bee Set Up?
There was a Salute to Republican Legislators Wednesday night. A great night for unity, doncha think?
Well, not quite. The speaker was Steve Moore (but not R. Stevie Moore), head of the RINO hunting Club for Growth and member of the Wall Street Journal’s editorial board. Moore’s talk included some rather specific criticisms of the Senate budget.
Reports vary, but Senate President Tim Bee, ostensibly one of the honorees, walked out and had some words with Speaker Jim Weiers. Bee has enough class that he hasn’t disclosed what Weiers and he discussed, but witnesses report he was not happy.
So, one has to wonder why the criticism of the Senate budget was so specific. Moore had numbers. I know that they are publicly available, but it doesn’t seem like Moore would bother making that much comment about a local fight. Some are saying that Moore, who has made a bit of a career of trying to take out Republicans who are too “moderate,” may have been fed talking points in an attempt to embarass Bee.
This is cool guys, keep it up. It keeps me from writing about splits in my own party.
NB - By the way, any reports on how much money they raised at this thing? Organizational difficulties delayed the dinner by two weeks, and the party has had some rather anemic fundraisers over the last couple of months. Gotta love Randy Pullen.
23 Comments
May 4th, 2007 at 9:17 am
Interesting story but won’t have much effect on Bee. He still has 100% support from the party in Southern Arizona.
May 4th, 2007 at 10:01 am
Yeah…your party down here seems to have a modicum of sense.
May 4th, 2007 at 1:38 pm
Ted,
I would not go that far but at least they finally have a new web site.
http://www.pimacountyrepublicanparty.com/
May 4th, 2007 at 7:10 pm
Shocking Phxkid. He has 100% of the party? Is that the party left over after Giffords took away all your moderate and independent support?
Tim Bee, honestly, should consider his political future and think very very hard about whether he can challenge her.
May 4th, 2007 at 8:32 pm
Actually, kralmajales, he probably does have 100%. Giffords didn’t take those voters you’re talking about. Randy lost them. Bee also has a 19,000 registration advantage and if you would take a look at the last election results he got the most votes of any senator in any district (opposed or unopposed). No Bee has lost Southern Arizona, ever. District 30 is at the heart of CD 8, not the freakshow that is mid-town Tucson (it’s divided with CD 7). He is already getting praise from Democrats for his even-handed leadership of the senate and he still has conservatives. Challenge Gabby? He already has. In 1983 he was elected validictorian of Emily Gray Junior High. Giffords got Saluditorian…
May 4th, 2007 at 10:49 pm
Jr. High? Man, and I thought that the folks who couldn’t let go of the glory days of High School were lame. But if that is Bee’s shining moment, who am I to argue?
*drops A Flock of Seagulls LP on the turntable for Billy*
May 5th, 2007 at 12:29 am
He’s the first Senate President from Southern Arizona in over 30 years. He’s gotten high marks from everyone from Pamela Gorman to Paula Aboud for his leadership. How’s that for a shining moment? Gabby’s shining moment? She beat a guy who was destined to lose in one of the worst years for Republicans in recent memory. She joins the ranks of McNulty, Coppersmith, English–one term wonders all.
May 5th, 2007 at 7:09 am
Ummm, you don’t elect Validictorian and Salutatorian… those are earned honors…. NAd Jr. High???? wow, sooo impressived with that bit of trivia
May 5th, 2007 at 7:41 am
I don’t think I said the word “elected”. It was sort of a joke that I even mentioned it (although it is true), but apparently I forgot I was dealing with Democrats, the people who find Al Franken funny…
May 5th, 2007 at 3:12 pm
“He already has. In 1983 he was elected validictorian of Emily Gray Junior High. Giffords got Saluditorian…”
um, how is that a joke?
May 5th, 2007 at 4:11 pm
Bee didn’t “have words” with Weiers as the post makes it seem. Bee left in a huff and Weiers had to go after “Mr. Class” to bring him back to the event. Whatever Weiers said must have worked because Bee made it back into the room before the entire event was over. Kind of a good thing since it never looks good when a Republican gets mad at the suggestion that bigger tax cuts are better than small ones. Also, Steve Moore is not with the Club for Growth. He used to be, but that was a couple of years and a couple of jobs ago.
No word on the $ raised yet, but the event sold out and was filled to about 95% capacity. Not bad for a night when the Suns and Lakers are playing.
The rest of you all are a little nuts though, with the arguing over who did what in high school. What’s with that?
May 5th, 2007 at 7:36 pm
Actually it’s even worse, they are arguing about who did what in junior high. But wait, it was a joke. Hahaha. A joke! Get it? You libs have no sense of humor. Hahaha.
May 5th, 2007 at 9:50 pm
Ha, I was just trying to poke fun back at Billy. In reality I take A flock of Seagulls very, very, seriously.
May 6th, 2007 at 1:29 am
I thought the irony and juxtoposition of their past and future situations would be amusing, maybe even cute, especially considering the bizarre retro trivia the host digs up from time to time, but like I said, I forgot who I was dealing with. This is the “study hard or you’ll end up in Iraq” 1000 laughs-a-minute crowd.
You’re right, eckeric, Flock of Seagulls is serious stuff, although I’m in more of a Godley and Creme mood at the moment.
May 6th, 2007 at 12:57 pm
Billy,
Do you really think that Bee has a total lock on those 19,000 voters you talk about? Giffords is going to be facing a most divided Rep. party and one that is in the doldrums. It is also one that has gotten more and more and more right wing as moderate desert it. Yes there is a 19,000 registration advantage among Republicans, but I am not one to believe that Giffords won’t continue to peel away Rep. voters as she has with some in business, continue to have a stranglehold on independents, and will also excite her base much more than the struggle you have between the Click-crowd and what I call the “angries”.
She is all over that district and has already built up quite warchest. Tim Bee is reasonable and can be moderate. He is so far doing a pretty great job in the State Senate. Why would he want to blow his political career trying to make a McNulty out of a Giffords?
May 6th, 2007 at 4:11 pm
kralmajales
Representative Giffords didn’t take long to bite the GOP hands that helped feed her the office–time will tell which one of us is correct but she’s already proven that she’s not the “pro business moderate” she ran as.
May 6th, 2007 at 11:28 pm
Kral (there’s just too many syllables so I’ll shorten it) has some interesting points. So let’s examine them, shall we?
1. Actually, I kind of do think he has a lock on those 19,000–at least enough to beat her. He got cross-over votes in this last election in fact. He is perfectly positioned to keep the conservatives and moderates happy. Between his work on border issues (smuggling bill with Payton), tax cuts, domestic violence issues, etc. he’s got the paleo-cons, budget hawks and Republican women on board. These aren’t just issues he’s introduced. Unlike Gabby’s projects for the last several years, these issues are actually law now. His brother was appointed JP unanimously by the Dems on the Pima County Board and he’ll probably be a lot of help in this election cycle for him. One member of his family has been in office in this district for over 16 years. They have a reputation for being strong conservatives–not wackjobs–who are well-liked. A good sign of his support among Republicans is that no one is going to run against him in the primary. Payton will run for the state Senate and I don’t know of anyone else who has the stature to challenge him.
The real question is why would Republicans vote for Gabby? She lives in a Republican district. Can you show me an instance when she hasn’t voted with Grijalva? Show me a Republican who doesn’t loath him. She has voted with him and the party line on EVERYTHING! How is that going to go over in Green Valley? In Cochise County? In East Tucson?
2. The business community was afraid of Graf, pure and simple. Now that she’s voting with the unions the chamber and other groups are getting freaked out about her too.
3. The Republicans have been in the doldrums for now. But you know what we can count on? Freak show action from the left. We’re already seeing it here in the City of Tucson. Have you read the Star lately and the Trasoff fiasco? That is exactly what pisses middle of the road Republicans off and reminds them why Democrats suck.
4. I’ve heard you bring up this “why would he risk his career” business on different occasions on different websites. Newflash, Kral: Tim’s termed out. So why not make a McNulty out of Giffords? What’s he going to do? Go down to the State House? He’s got nothing to lose, really. But you guys do. She can stand outside of Safeways all she wants. She can raise as much money as she wants. Republicans aren’t going to be fooled when they see her voting record.
5. If I were you I would pray McCain fails to get the nomination. Even more, I would pray that Hillary does not get it either. The juxtaposition of a pro-war Senator from Arizona with Hillary/Gabby would not be good. It will raise Republican turnout dramatically and they will pull the lever down the line for a Bee–just like they have for over 16 years.
May 8th, 2007 at 7:52 am
Excellent Points Billy…Let me see if I can address them.
1. The is no question that Bee is better liked than a host of the others on your side who might run including Antenori and Ashe. That said my concern for Bee is that he is now facing an incumbent who did indeed win with a lot of Republican support and a lot of independent support. She also, more than that, awakened her own base. Can Bee awaken your base enough to overcome the national and even state trends that are turning this state more and more independent and more and more Democrat. Republicans are going to have to give people a reason to vote against Giffords who is reasonable, moderate, can be liberal, and who is again…all over this district. I don’t think you all can simply bounce an incumbent by calling her a Pelosi or Grijalva, when she is not. Even with a great candidate like Bee, there is an anti-Republican trend that is running pretty darned deep right now and you all are fighting each other and losing moderates like crazy.
Giffords is very well liked and it is going to be hard for a well-liked Bee to stop her.
2. I am not sure that Giffords is all that scary to business. I think you might be surprised at her past business record and the fact that she works pretty well with them. She is no conservative, true, but again reasonable and effective. Why shift horses? Will she take a majority of business? Maybe not, but we will take enough cross-overs to again make it pretty difficult.
3. The freakshow action that you point out is indeed funny. I wont ever say that Democrats don’t have a capacity to hang themselves, but I must also say that they look pretty reasonable and sane in comparison to the “angries” on your side of the fence. Truth is that Giffords does “show” as a nutcase liberal and ya’ll will have to do a lot to make her look that way, and that will make Bee look a lot less like the Bee that he is. I am still not sure that he won’t face a challenger in the primary from the hard on the border types.
4. The why would he risk his career is a real issue. Yes he is term limited, but all he has to do is sit out a year or so, make a little money as a businessman, and he will have a host of statewide offices that it would be hard to beat him at. I could see the guy as a Governor. Running against Giffords is a big risk and ultimately a defeat won’t help him and his political career. I keep looking at the folks that have lost in this and other Congressional districts in the past. While it is certainly no death knell for life, they are often never heard from again.
5. I think I agree with you about what you said here. I don’t think Hillary would help Giffords in ?Southern Arizona and I think a McCain would be hard to beat. Still, conservatives do not like McCain (why…I still do not know…he is more conservative than any other major candidate on the Republican ticket)…and his stance on the war is just plain off the charts batty.
In the end, I think broad, societal voting trends given the war, the economy, prices of gas, etc. is going to make it difficult on any of your candidates. Bee looks good statewide, but I am not sure this is the time for him to run for a national office when all the winds are blowing against him.
May 9th, 2007 at 12:17 am
Antenori is not running neither is Ash. End of story.
If national trends were to hold and the public was so anti-war, then why is McCain beating Hillary and Obama nationwide? This district has two military instalations on it with a ton of veterans. They do not agree with her on the war. Opinion polls among active duty and retired have remained steady for Republicans and in favor of finishing the job in Iraq. Are they going to vote for her after she supported a surrender date in Iraq? I don’t believe they will. It doesn’t matter whether you or the NY Times editorial page agree with her on that vote. Republicans by and large will not. They are already seeing a Democrat Congress and many are regretting what it looks like.
Republicans did not lose because of the war. They lost partially because of the failures in Iraq, but more because of corruption (Mark Foley, Abramoff, etc.) and rampant spending.
Moderate? It will be very easy to compare Gabby with Grijalva–look at her voting record. I have not seen one single departure from Grijalva. If I’m wrong find the vote for me. Why is it such a stretch to compare her with him? The difference between the two? She just doesn’t talk about her votes and slam the president. He does. The only difference is the rhetoric–not the substance. Do Republicans want another Raul representing them?
Talk to the Tucson Chamber or the Realtors or any other business group and ask them what they think of her vote for the unions not having to have a secret ballot on voting for union membership. They are furious!
As for Tim awakening the base, I think he is doing that. There is enormous pride across southern Arizona that we have the first senate president who is actually accomplishing something for Southern Arizona. He has stood by his principles and is conservative. He has managed to unify the three tiers of the Republican base–social, economic and pro-national defense. They are unified and the best proof of that is a dislike for your incumbant and the fact that no primary challenger has emerged. All the while he is getting press like this from the Star:
“We believe the future lies with lawmakers like Bee, who see collaboration and conciliation as more useful than ideological intransigence.”
You can’t paint this guy as a wing-nut.
More and more democrat? In CD-8 we picked up more Rs than Ds since the election. How do you explain that?
I would not be very surprised by her business record. She had low scores with virtually every business group, including the State and Tucson Chambers, NFIB, Realtors, ranchers and agriculture. She is anti-tort reform, pro-tax and from the last few months of voting she is clearly pro-union. Let’s be honest here she gets her money mainly from liberal groups like Emily’s List, the unions and trial lawyers–not exactly a firm foundation of business support. And her record on business issues is getting steadily worse, not better.
What it amounts to is this: her demeanor is reasonable and pro-business but not her voting record. That’s easy to show. She promised to be a centrist–she’s voting like Grijalva.
Change horses in mid-stream? Answer me this: what about her would make a Republican want to keep voting for her? What is different about her from Hillary or Grijalva? That is the center of gravity for this election.
Your argument about the extremes in your party essentially boiled down to this tautology: “there is no freakshow action because there is no freakshow–and even if there was you guys are worse.” I know it’s hard to disprove a negative but you gotta do better than that. Do you actually read the comments on this website? Did you hear Harry Reid say the war is lost? Your Moveon.org world is already attacking rank and file democrats for not being pure enough. How can Gabby stray from that? Will she? Because she has not shown evidence that she has gotten out from under Grijalva’s influence.
There are a ton of people who have run for office, won then lost then won again. U.S. House races are notorious for this (Jim Kolbe vs. McNulty is a perfect case in point. He won in LD14, lost to McNulty and then came back to kick his ass two years later.) There is precedent for it, so why not do it? It would actually give him bonafides if he did run statewide. And why not risk it? There are other examples of losers getting rewarded for being losers (we’re looking your way, Jeff Latas). Why would he take a year or two of being out of circulation off? What good would that do him?
And running for statewide office? Are you on crack? Have you actually been through Maricopa County? Have you experienced a Republican Party primary up there before? If you had then you would not suggest he run for an office. No, I think he’s just fine running against your candidate and while I’m sure he appreciates your obvious concern for his career, I think he’s going to run and I think he’s going to beat Gabby.
May 10th, 2007 at 8:09 am
I think Bee will be a formidable candidate but I do not think he is going to beat Giffords and I don’t think that Republicans are going to get any pick-ups anywhere in the coming year.
Much of what you attack her for, her stance on the war, being liberal, etc etc. is generally what your party is being tossed to the side for. All the stuff about surrender and finishing the job and even the mantra about “support the troops” cannot overcome the fact that most Americans see this war as wrong, a mistake, and too expensive for the American public who is struggling with education, healthcare, etc. Your party has held together pretty well, stubbornly, in support of this tax and spend venture that outdoes any we have ever seen. Moderates, independents, and frankly some Republicans have come to hate your party and will look at Giffords as quite reasonable, even in the face of a good conservative candidate like Bee.
This brand of conservatism that you all have left your party with will not win elections.
You can try to associate her on some votes with Pelosi and Grijalva, but what you forget is that they right now are trusted more than anyone in your party…and they are liberal. For every blatanly liberal vote you find you will find a host of votes that “fit” the district.
On the point of Republican registration going up, you need to also note that independent registration is going up dramatically. Independents overwhelmingly voted and will vote again Democrat. In addition, don’t forget that at this point most polls are saying that voters in Arizona, despite registration, identify themselves more with the Democratic party than with yours.
The m0st important reason that I think Bee is going to lose, beyond the fact that Giffords is an excellent Congresswoman and has a ton of support, is when you said this:
“Republicans did not lose because of the war. They lost partially because of the failures in Iraq, but more because of corruption (Mark Foley, Abramoff, etc.) and rampant spending.”
Nothing has changed Billy. Nothing. Renzi is now on the plank and nationally your party continues to support this corruption and try to cover it up. They did lose because of the failures in Iraq…the rampant spending you talk about IS Iraq. How can any of you defend $500 Billion dollars in Iraq spent so far and now the President and your party in Congress defends another blank check to continue it.
Iraq is only one reason…but is the primary reason…that even a good conservative like Tim Bee won’t be trusted to go to Washington and why people will prefer someone like Giffords who fights for people and doesn’t mind spending a scintilla of that $500 billion on those people.
May 11th, 2007 at 1:38 am
One of the hardest things in politics to do is to put yourself in the other persons shoes. In order to do that, Kral, you have to get out of the moveon.org mindset and think like a Republican. That 19,000 voter margin is your audience. It’s the electorate that will matter in this election. It won’t be you. This election isn’t about your opinions–it will be about theirs and I will wager they won’t be happy with the Democrats or Gabby come 08.
I didn’t say “some” votes with Grijalva. I inidicated “all” of them. They are identical. Every. Single. One. I never said Pelosi–you keep bringing her up (granted, she is a moonbat) but no one is as bad as Raul Grijalva. Grijalva trusted? Show me a poll to that effect. Show me a poll in CD8. He is one of the most liberal congressmen in America and Republicans absolutely loathe him. It’s a legitimate campaign comparison. You all did it with the president to great effect this last election. Why isn’t Gabby/Grijalva fair game? You name the issue: the war, spending, unions, etc. and they are absolutely identical. Gabby did not win and Republicans did not lose because Democrats ran as liberals (take a look at the freak who ran against Lieberman). Republicans shot themselves in the foot and Democrats ran as Republicans. Gabby softpeddaled her left-leaning agenda in the general. She ran as someone who would be indistinguishable from Kolbe. Now she has to pay Raul back for his help getting union support. Republicans aren’t stupid. I said this before: explain to me what issues will appeal to that 19,000 that she has championed?
As for spending, anyone who believed the democrats would spend less is finding out that is not true. Their inclination is to spend more than the Republican congress on crazy left-wing programs.
I realize you don’t think any of this is a problem. You like the fact she votes the way she does, because you are a liberal too. That’s fine and it is a fine fit for CD7, but it isn’t one for Republicans in CD8 who hold the majority. About all she’s got to offer them is her place on the Armed Services committee which has been blown by her votes against our troops. Your own personal opinion of those votes is irrelevant. Opinion polls indicate Republicans disagree with those votes.
Renzi? He likely won’t be around in 08. You all are in charge now. Scandals, overspending, policies, etc. will be your problem by then. The history of 06 will be forgotten. The patience of the democrat base to be satisfied will be overwhelming by then. Why did you work so hard if democrats in congress don’t follow thru with a left-wing agenda? When that happens, there will be more reasons for Republicans to vote for their own party by 08.
Tim Bee is a perfect fit. He will win. And all the Safeway PR spin and money in the bank ain’t going to change the opinion of 19,000 Southern Arizona Republicans who will be voting against Hillary too.
May 11th, 2007 at 3:51 pm
Sounds like it is “on”…and already. (smile)
Best to you Billy.
Nice exchange.
May 11th, 2007 at 11:04 pm
Same to you. I’m so excited about the next campaign season I can’t stand to wait any longer! May the best candidate win!
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